What about adding a General Sound emulation into PLD? What formats are currently supported with Sprinter?

We have not any plan about support GS in PLD. Only some of new Spectrum games use GS.
And Sprinter has sound system with not bad features (16 bit sound, 8KHz-44Khz).
Today sound system of Sprinter support format of Covox sound system. Also it has mode of Covox with 512 byte buffer.



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PETERS PLUS LTD

16 bit sound is not bad, but when computer plays on DAC, all other processes must stop!
Not only a few games support GS, their number will rise soon, because it is easy to made a Amiga MOD and add it to a game, so it IS a step into future.
I can't imagine GS in a PLD, but maybe a ISA-8 version of GS can be developed? Or can be ZX BUS addes directly onto mainboard or indirectly via a ISA-8>ZXBUS convertor for easy connection Spectrum hardware (such as GS, any interfaces etc)?

Music coprocessor is very good device, certainly.
But CPU will be not so busy with usage Covox with buffer.
Anyway we have the information which can help to creating ISA-8>ZXBUS convertor. We have not plan to manufacture this device but we can publish all information after test with modern mainboard. If it will be interesting for Sprinter users...



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PETERS PLUS LTD

I think about implementing a mod-tracker for Sprinter. I want that it will play MOD and STM files. I can do it under GNU General Public License. What do you think about this idea?

"16 bit sound is not bad, but when computer plays on DAC, all other processes must stop!
Not only a few games support GS, their number will rise soon, because it is easy to made a Amiga MOD and add it to a game, so it IS a step into future. "
********
YES!! I completely agree with it. There is more and more games and other progs with GS music/fx.
GS is very important in ZX world.

Greetz,
Yerzmyey

Maybe producers of Sprinter could make and publish some schemes of interface:
Sprinter <=> GS

??????

Cu,
Yerz

"I think about implementing a mod-tracker for Sprinter. I want that it will play MOD and STM files. I can do it under GNU General Public License. What do you think about this idea?"
**********
Although there is a mod-tracker for Speccy, so everybody could make MODs on Sprinter in ZX mode, BUT -
first, I think there should be more and more progs for ZX
second, Your tracker could be better than the old one,
as Sprinter is much faster in its the best mode, so music-making could be more easy.
So Your idea is good.

Yerz

Do you have real GS on your real Spectrum?
Or you told about GS in emulators?

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PETERS PLUS LTD

Our convertor ISA-ZX bus was used with old mainboard Sp97. We need test this device with Sp2000.
And I think we should know how many users has real GS or other devices which can use ZX bus.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

To have in some way support GS with the Sprinter it would be interesting...
But what wants to say ZX-Bus? is reported to the original 38 pin connector of Speccyl?
Personally I have a GS connected to the Scorpion with its slot, and I know also that there's for the Kay-1024 but with the priority standard Kay.
I consider more interesting the possibility than to insert a new GS planned for slot the ISA-Sprinter.
Moreover I don't believe that it's easy to find a GS original (not in a emulator... :)
The outline electrical worker is available on Internet
http://zx.dotnet.lv/gs/GSPAK.ZIP

GS not manufacture today. So, will not be new GS for ISA.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

1) We have REAL General sound connected to REAL Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2 (with MB-02+) - we aren't talking about emulators.
2) Preparation of production of GeneralSound compatible card for the West Europe by the 8-Bit Company is in progress.
3) "The original 38 pin connector of Speccy" is often reported simple as a bus or as a ZX bus.
4) Sound of Sprinter DACs is awfull - only 8 bit samples played on a 16 bit DAC! As I heard in SpDOOM, only TWO channels are used! Samples on demand aren't available.
5] Finally, ON MY OWN OPINION, Sprinter graphic modes are excellent, but sound needs an improvement (better souncard).

It will be very interesting to look on new GS. We not against an external sound card, realy. And we will be happy if Sprinter users can use new GS with ISA-ZXbus convertor.
By the way, Sprinter will can play 8KHz-44KHz 16 bit stereo sound, after BIOS update (it will be published during this month).



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PETERS PLUS LTD

>GS not manufacture today. So, will not be new GS for ISA.
Yes it is/ X-trade sold it to Compex-GPS.
Anyway DMUSC(DMA ULTRA SOUND CARD) is better!

>GS not manufacture today. So, will not be new GS for ISA.
Yes it is/ X-trade sold it to Compex-GPS.
Anyway DMUSC(DMA ULTRA SOUND CARD) is better!
Sbou speccy bus. There 3-types of ZX bus.
Scorpion ZX bus
X-TRADE ZX bus(see Spectrum Expert #2 for more info)
Nemo bus..

Thanks, we know about it.
ISA-ZXbus card has X-Trade type. Mainboards Sp97 used it for GS and X-Trade modem.


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PETERS PLUS LTD

XTR modems are out of pruduction. After a serious talk with NEMO guys who produced it decided that modem-mail is bad, they think that post mail is better. I thin DMAUSC would be better for sprinter that GS. An about a topic. I think it would be great to have network card in sprinter. There was russian PC ПЪЛЬадинand it had very simple network. Anuway there is a network card for MSX. So it would not be very big problem!

Yes, we are thinking about possibility of creation a LAN card for the Sprinter. It will be unstandard card. But in the future only. VGA for Sprinter is the main problem today.


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PETERS PLUS LTD

And what about the old NE1000 Ethernet cards? Does anyone know if they are still in production? They were ISA, 8 bit, and -better- TCP/IP compatible!

I used to assemble NE1000-compatibles here in Argentina imported from China in kit form for my company, but I'm afraid they are all sold out... :(
The REAL bad part is that I don't even have the specs (I/O Ports, Int #, etc...)

Marcelo.

By the way, we never saw any 8 bit ISA LAN card. Therefore we think of creation LAN card for Sprinter.
But if somebody has a lot of 8 bit ISA LAN card we ready to change our plan.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

"Our convertor ISA-ZX bus was used with old mainboard Sp97. We need test this device with Sp2000.
And I think we should know how many users has real GS or other devices which can use ZX bus."
***********
One: Sorry, but EVERY zx model must have ZX-BUS to connect every Speccy hardware... It doesn't matter if I use it or not. I must have this possibility. I can buy in every time many devices using zx-bus.
Two: everybody can make GS by himself I think. (Am I wrong?)
Second: imagine such a situation: I have no GS on Sprinter, but I load a game with GS-music, I start it, and now I can hear GS music - exact like on real GS - IN THIS CASE You don't have to make GS connection.
But emulation of GS had to be PERFECT. And not slow-down work of whole computer.
Is THAT possible??? I am very interested.

"4) Sound of Sprinter DACs is awfull - only 8 bit samples played on a 16 bit DAC! As I heard in SpDOOM, only TWO channels are used! Samples on demand aren't available. "
***********
Only 2 channels of sound in 2002 year is unacceptable for me. So AY will be better?!?!? (It has 3 channels of digital sound). Every musican is interested in 4-channel digital sound, it's sure, people. If You don't believe me, just check it out. Ask ZX musicians...
So Sprinter has only 2 channels of digital sound????????

Yerz

"4) Sound of Sprinter DACs is awfull - only 8 bit samples played on a 16 bit DAC! As I heard in SpDOOM, only TWO channels are used! Samples on demand aren't available. "
***********
Only 2 channels of sound in 2002 year is unacceptable for me. So AY will be better?!?!? (It has 3 channels of digital sound). Every musican is interested in 4-channel digital sound, it's sure, people. If You don't believe me, just check it out. Ask ZX musicians...
So Sprinter has only 2 channels of digital sound????????

Yerz

At first, Sprinter computer is not ZX clone. It is original computer with Z80 CPU, which has Spectrum configuration for support Spectrum software. We never have a plan about support ALL ZX periphery. Yes, GS is not bad sound card for 8 bit computer, but it is not so popular in the Spectrum World. Less than one hundred GS cards was manufactured from 1996 to 1999 years. Today, GS made in single copies for single orders, only.
Support of Spectrum software with GS sound is a problem. But we have not any ideas about it, today.


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PETERS PLUS LTD

Yes. Today only two channels. But in modern model of computer only. But the next model of Sprinter (in the next year) will be has more than 4 channels. And you will need not change mainboard of Sprinter. It will be done in the Altera PLD.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

>At first, Sprinter computer is not ZX clone. It is original >computer with Z80 CPU, which has Spectrum configuration >for support Spectrum software.

Ha-ha, say it louder. We will see how many fans of Sinclair will abandon though of buying your machine. Ha-ha.



>We never have a plan
>about support ALL ZX periphery.

Ha-ha-ha, you're getting better and better. Say it louder too. It's a very good market-trick. Now you'd just say that next sprinter will not be compatible with Spectrum, ha-ha. We will see, who buy this computer then.
Try to understand: now people has POWERFUL PC COMPUTERS. (Or MACs). They don't need any 21Mhz comp.
They are interested in sprinter as long as it's a new model of Sinclair Zx Spectrum with new great possibilities. (Great possibilities in comparison to Speccy of course...)
THEY are your the most important clients.



>Yes, GS is not bad sound
>card for 8 bit computer, but it is not so popular in the >Spectrum World.
Well, maybe. But it is THE ONLY card which was ever so near to make STANDARD!!!!! There are MANY programs to support GS for Speccy. Games... Trackers... Players... So don't say me, that GS is 'not so popular'.
Oh, and one more thing. GS WILL BE still more and more popular, as it is emulated by one of the best Speccy emulators, "Z80 STEALTH". Thirst - people must know about it. Second - they will buy it then. Or make it by themselves.
Nowadays Sprinter's sound sucks. You have two optional ways.
1) Iprove the sound and make one more 'standard', which will make more mess.
2) Use PRESENT standard - GS (and maybe improve it in the future).
Think about it. Every firm depends on its clients.



>Less than one hundred GS cards was
>manufactured from 1996 to 1999 years. Today, GS made in >single copies for single orders, only.
Yes, I don't doubt it. It might be true.
But read my above text.



>Support of Spectrum software with GS sound is a problem. >But we have not any ideas about it, today.
It's a problem? In technical way?
What kind of problem, may I ask? I am interested in some details in this subject.

We never deceived anybody. We is always open spoke about features of Sprinter computer. Why we opened this forum, in your opinion?
And today's features of our computer is more then a possibility of support Spectrum software. Our plan is progress of graphic features ,sound, hardware support. We propose a lot of interesting features of 8 bit computer with flexible architecture. Solderer need not for the mainboard upgrade.

About GS. I am never said about unpossibility of usage real GS with Sprinter. It was in past. And we testing it for Sp2000 now.
But emulation of GS in PLD is another problem. Do you have real suggestions?

And just one. The competition with Spectrum emulators is wrong way.



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PETERS PLUS LTD

Why we do not make a poll:
You would on purpose buy a GS ISA for the Sprinter?

>And today's features of our computer is more then a >possibility of support Spectrum software.

I realize. And I am very glad because of it. I admire sprinter-constructors and designers.



>Our plan is progress of graphic features ,sound, hardware >support.

That's a great news too.



>We propose a lot of interesting features of 8 bit computer >with flexible architecture.

Fantastic.
So now - if you opened this forum - suggest you, that maybe it would be a good idea to implement GS into speinter, as it would extent its sound possibilities very much. (Esspecially in comparison to present possibilities).
If you are going to make next year better sound than GS, then I only suggest: resonable would be to make it compatible with previous the best sound-standard: GS.
Don't you think it makes sense?????????????????



>But emulation of GS in PLD is another problem. Do you have >real suggestions?

Sadly I am not a computer-constructor. I regret.
Is this forum only for computer-constructor or for normal users too??




>And just one. The competition with Spectrum emulators is >wrong way.
Yes, I realize you could be right... Maybe.
But abandoning Spectrum family (compatibility, peripherials and stuff) - it's THE WORST way. I am completelly sure about it.
Read carefuly my previous post.
Everybody has powerful PCs and MACs. Spectrum freaks are the most interested in this machine.
Do you want to share SAM COUPE's producers faith?
Nobody wants, I am sure.

I wish you YEARS of good work and great business results. But I am a user and potential client (and I know more of them), so I wrote here some of my suggestions.

Personally i think GS support is a waste of time, given the amount of people who are actually using GS, and the amount of programs for the Spectrum taking advantage of it. The most popular sound interfaces for the spectrum, AY and COVOX are supported, and that is enough for me. Personally, i'd prefer getting compatibility with ISA SoundBlaster/compatible cards, since they have more possibilities than GS, with Adlib, wave playback, and MIDI support, and they are cheap if you find them second hand.

Perhaps it would even be possible making GS emulation for SoundBlaster cards in software?

Oh, and one more thing...
If you make better sound card than GS for your machine,
and add compatibility (in emulation way or other) with old, good GS standard -
you can forget about connecting GS to sprinter, about producing motherboard with GS on the board and other, similar ideas..........

Not bad idea... We can open this poll after finishing of "CP/M for Sprinter" poll.



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PETERS PLUS LTD

I think that Sprinter is a good work.
I think that the most of potential clients aren't only Speccy nostalgy but also persons that want a cheaper computer for easy works that don't want to buy an expensive Pentium. Ok for the support of speccy but Sprinter in my opinion must have its standard and its programs...
CP/M could be another possibility for potential clients because you have more software that run with Sprinter

It can be found out by same poll too.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

Hehehe, suddenly appeared here two strange, unknown persons, who hates general sound very much and they don't want it to be implemented into Sprinter. Give me a brak, I don't believe in such coincidences.
If I want sommit for my comp, I am interested in this. If not - I simply don't care. So if somebody cares about #not# implementing some stuff to Sprinter, I found it [censored] suspected. That's simple.

"I think that the most of potential clients aren't only Speccy nostalgy but also persons that want a cheaper computer for easy works that don't want to buy an expensive Pentium. "
-----------------
Oooooooooh, You must be joking. Or You are not this who You're talking You are.
People wanting cheaper computer?? Buying it from miles-distance, from Russia? My humble man, only citizens of Russia can see this matter in this way. So don't [censored] to me that You are Italian or sommit.
#Everybody# who lives on the West, to have a cheaper computer, will buy PC 486 (or something similar) or Amiga. Nobody will invest money to buy some not-known computer from far country, You are simply naive or You are lying.


YERZMYEY/H-PRG

Oh, yeah - next one...

"The most popular sound interfaces for the spectrum, AY and COVOX are supported"
------------
Covox is the most popular interface??? Where?!?!? In Sweden maybe?? Are You so [censored] big coneser of Spectrum-society, if You know that covox is the most popular?!?! So probably there is huge zx-society in Sweden. But it's interesting, why I have never heard about ANY zx-maniac from Sweden. Strange people started to appear here. Well-informed Speccy-fan from Sweden, known by nobody.
My good man, covox is the most popular in Russia, You should be better in lying if You intend to do it still.
And I still say: if I don't use some hardware, I don't care if it #is# implemented or #not#. If You care to #not# implemente general sound - it is transparently suspected.

I will probably quit visiting this forum, as strange things started to happen here.

YERZMYEY/H-PRG

Additional info from me, probably the last one:
actually I don't care too much if GS will be added to Sprinter or not. It's possible I will buy this 'puter anyway. But I don't like when people using fact they are anonym, and says some strange stuff on various forums.

"Perhaps it would even be possible making GS emulation for SoundBlaster cards in software?"
----------------------
Yes - that's what is more interesting for me.
SoundBlaster in Sprinter. And - yes, indeed - it would be nice if it could emulate general sound too...


YERZMYEY/H-PRG

Easy, easy...
By the way, 90% (several tens) of Sprinter users lives outside Russia. Today Sprinter users lives in 14 countries:
Spain, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Poland, Czech Rep., Austria, Denmark, UK, Holland, Sweden, Belarus, USA, Argentina.


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PETERS PLUS LTD

I think that 110 Dollar computer is very cheaper... ok ok... I think that GS is a good thing in Sprinter... But I spoke about target (users) of Sprinter: not only speccy nostalgy users but also persons that want a cheaper pc inside Russia or outside

> I think that 110 Dollar computer is very cheaper

May be :)
Do you know that Pentium-166MMX costs less than $100 in Russia? :)
Sprinter can't take part in competition "expensive/cheap" PC because it's better than standard PC :)))
Sprinter can to be change his configuration!!!
Sprinter Altera chip is more sofisticated then z80 processor!!!!!!!!!
You can develop new super-parallel-vector processor
if you want :)
only for $110 ;)



Alexander Shabarshin (shaos@mail.ru)

Here in Italy if you want to buy a pc, you can buy only PIIII :( so pc are very expensive and computers such as Pentium 120 are sold out. You can buy it only used... so for a new computer you must spend 1500/2000 euro...

Have you ever heard of market of 2nd hand thing ? I guess it is enough to open a newspaper and find an adverts.

oh yes... second hand... it isn't new!!!

So - generally - there are people interested in general sound, connected with some interface.

And other people (like me) who is interested in PC's SoundBlaster 16bit, which is able to emulate general sound perfectly (which should be easy, I mean the emulation).

But what about connecting *and using* SoundBlaster to Sprinter?? Is it possible?

Greetz,
Yerzmyey/H-PRG

I think it is impossible. Not by an electric part, but on perfomance. The central processor will not consult with a good sound. I think that is necessary GS or its new version. Differently digital audio the processor.


С уважением ukms[z]

"I think that is necessary GS or its new version"
**********
Ah. So one more man vote for general sound.
So what will say designers now?
Is possible to connect SoundBlaster to Sprinter (and emulate general_sound) or - easier is to plug in real g_s?

Yerz/H-PRG

We have plan to open poll about extended sound of Sprinter. It will be done next week. We want heeding more votes.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

>Preparation of production of GeneralSound compatible card
>for the West Europe by the 8-Bit Company is in progress.

On behalf of the manufacturer I state disagreement with info about manufacture of General Sound cards by "8-bit Company".
General Sound is trade mark of " GPS COMPEX ". We have all copyrights.
We never gave our copyrights to anybody.

Our post address:
Post box 142,
192007, St.Petersburg
Russia

e-mail: cpgkonst@mail.ru

Another possibility would perhaps be to add support in the PLD for interrupts and possibly DMA for the sound output as well? Though it would be a far cry from GS capabilities, if possible, it would certainly reduce CPU load, compared to traditional COVOX. It would also give the built-in sound hardware similar advantages as connecting a SoundBlaster card, as far as PCM sound output is concerned. Perhaps even greater advantages, considering the built-in hardware is capable of 16 bit sound, whereas an ISA SoundBlaster card would only be capable of 8 bit wave output, due to the Sprinter ISA port being 8 bit only.

To me, this would certainly be of much greater interest, than SoundBlaster support. For potential buyers without access to old computer gear it would perhaps also be a matter of interest?

I have no idea how hard it would be to implement something like this in the PLD hardware, but being a sound freak, i do find the idea interesting. =)

You remark about ISA-8 is correct. And we have opinion about external sound for Sprinter too. But let's wait the result of future poll (Monday).

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PETERS PLUS LTD

>But let's wait the result of future poll (Monday).

Well, I found one disadventage of the poll.
Most of people (all of them?) would like to have
AY in Sprinter as default option. So I don't think that
AY should be put in the poll, as it should be allways in
Sprinter.
I thought only better sound stuff is matter of this discuss.
Don't You think?

Regards,
Yerz/H-PRG

>I state disagreement with info about manufacture of General >Sound cards by "8-bit Company".
>General Sound is trade mark of " GPS COMPEX ". We have >all copyrights.
>We never gave our copyrights to anybody.

Well, yes - if so, it's obvious You are right.
But actually we talk probably mostly about some stuff
'compatible' to GS, I think.
Is it legal to produce hardware which is compatible
with GS?

We want to propose all variants of sound, which can be sufficient for somebody.
But you can see - we not include Beeper.

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PETERS PLUS LTD

It seems i am not the only one confused by the poll...

While most people it seems would like AY in the Sprinter for Spectrum compatibility(which is an important aspect of the Sprinter), i am in all honestly unsure whether i find the prospect of having it for normal Sprinter operation appealing or not. AY is despite some of the amazing stuff done with it, a very primitive sound chip.

Having a computer entirely without sound feels kind of boring, but i can't help getting the feeling that AY is a waste of PLD space, especially if most people are planning to use some other sound card for "serious" things. The advantage of not supporting AY, would then be that there would be more space on the PLD for future hardware upgrades. If GS is still being produced, and is possible to adapt to the current Sprinter ports, i think it sounds like a good (though perhaps a tad expensive) option. Perhaps in the long term, it would be conceivable to provide software support for several kinds of sound cards?

It is my personal opinion that the internal 16 bit sound output of the Sprinter in its current state, despite of buffers (which are a good idea), is maybe a bit limited. Since i have yet to receive my Sprinter board this is not based on first-hand experience, but it looks like programming sound output like COVOX, would make the task cumbersome without IRQ and DMA. Are there any plans to modify the Sprinter Sound System to make it more "user friendly"?

In my view, the ideal scenario would be a built in Spectrum Sound System with SoundBlaster 16-like wave output, and the possibility to add "wavetable" with for instance a GS (like Wave Blaster upgrade for SoundBlaster 16) as an option to reduce cpu load. Of course, if possible, it would still be desirable to have AY support in Spectrum modes for running old applications and demos.

Long post, few questions, much complaining - i stop now =)

>We want to propose all variants of sound, which can be >sufficient for somebody.
>But you can see - we not include Beeper.

Hehehe, I must admit I thought about beeper too. :)
So btw - one little question: has Sprinter a beeper in ZX mode? :)

>While most people it seems would like AY in the Sprinter for Spectrum compatibility(which is an important aspect of the Sprinter), i am in all honestly unsure whether i find the prospect of having it for normal Sprinter operation appealing or not. AY is despite some of the amazing stuff done with it, a very primitive sound chip.
*************
The converstation refers mostly to most-popular standard, like I understood. Only secondly we talk about possibilities of sound-cards (other stuff than AY, GS etc...)


>Having a computer entirely without sound feels kind of boring, but i can't help getting the feeling that AY is a waste of PLD space, especially if most people are planning to use some other sound card for "serious" things. The advantage of not supporting AY, would then be that there would be more space on the PLD for future hardware upgrades. If GS is still being produced, and is possible to adapt to the current Sprinter ports, i think it sounds like a good (though perhaps a tad expensive) option. Perhaps in the long term, it would be conceivable to provide software support for several kinds of sound cards?
__________
I still think if I don't need anything in Sprinter, as I don't use it, I still don't mind it to be there, inside.
Personally I even didn't think that presence of AY in Sprinter is a subject of any disscussions.
Anyway it's only my opinion. I think it has to be in the comp.


>In my view, the ideal scenario would be a built in Spectrum Sound System with SoundBlaster 16-like wave output, and the possibility to add "wavetable" with for instance a GS (like Wave Blaster upgrade for SoundBlaster 16) as an option to reduce cpu load. Of course, if possible, it would still be desirable to have AY support in Spectrum modes for running old applications and demos.
___________
Nothing to add here. I agree with every word.


Greetz,
Yerz/H-PRG

Yes, Sprinter can use Spectrum beeper in Spectrum mode (48 BASIC and 128 BASIC).


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PETERS PLUS LTD

when the poll is over, btw?

Poll about Sprinter's sound will be over after one week.

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PETERS PLUS LTD